i dont know what it is with this country (england) and its hooligan children. it is really strange, there are so many of them and they behave in a violent and pointless manner i have never seen anywhere else.
yesterday 2 boys came into the bookshop. at some moment, one of them (who was about 9) pushed my collegue, a petite german girl. she looked at him for an explanation, and he said sarcastically that it was an accident. she continued what she was doing. then the boy and his friend (who was about 12) started throwing books of the shelf and onto the floor. at that point my collegue asked them to leave. they spat in her face. she began ushering them out, but even at the front door, with everyone watching, they were throwing things off tables and on the ground, shouting abuse and obscenities. outside the shop, they started laughing and walked off.
this sort of thing seems to happen all the time here. you see it alot on the bus. a few months back a bunch of similar young kids jumped on top of me as i was getting of the bus so that i fell and ripped my trousers. they, again, laughed and ran off. it is quite difficult to do anything. technically the boys in the shop didnt commit a crime (they didnt destroy or steal anything) but they just behave atrociously, and seemingly for absolutely no reason.
of course there are kids who behave badly everywhere, in all countries, but it is this last point that particularly bothers me here: there never seems to be any reason for their behaviour other than maybe boredom. it is one thing to start a fight over some grevance, real or imagined, but these kids seem to do it as a sport. the other thing that is striking is that they are always very young, like 10-16, always white and "ethnically" british, and always seemingly constantly unacompanied. when these guys came into the bookshop it was already after 8pm. what were a 9 and a 12 year old doing cruising the west end alone at that hour anyway? where the hell were their parents? my german collegue and i posed these questions in bewilderment to our head of security, MD. he just laughed at us. "just imagine" he said "you call the parents in here, they will be younger than both of you cause they had the kids at 15, they will be smoking and drinking and fucking a different guy every night...you think they have time to look after those kids?"
scary thought.
13 commentaires:
There is nothing worse than white trash..
Here we go again.
It seems that there is one group these days that it is okay - even fashionable - to racially slur: the white working class.
Is it any wonder that working class white kids misbehave when they live in a society in which it is perfectly acceptable to make the kind of comments about their group that appear above.
Fifty years ago there were no ethnic minorities in Britain at all to speak of and working class people were held in respect.
Now a third of the population of London was born outside of the UK (see here) and poor white people are called 'white trash' and middle class people openly stereotype working class mothers as having babies at 15, smoking, drinking and having sex with a different man each night.
With all of society against them, being the only group in society it's okay to openly insult and racially slur, is it any wonder than working class white kids go off the rails?
Let me put this another way.
In response to two children's bad behaviour, wouldn't it be better to try to understand the roots of their alienation and aggression rather than simply racially insulting them and their mothers?
Rather than saying that they are trash, that there is nothing worse than them, it would be so much more constructive and caring to try to see why they need to express such anti-social sentiments.
The violence of blanket condemnation of them and their class and race is much much worse than any violence they themselves carried out in that bokkshop.
Marcus,
I didn't mean to insult anybody (let alone the working class, white or not), I was just employing what appears to be a very meaningful colloquialism.
I pretty much agree with the idea that labelling people doesn't help to solving social conflicts, but this blog is not exactly a social policy forum neither, so maybe my fault is not all that terrible after all?
Btw, since you seem to know a lot about English sociology, I'd love to carry out the discussion further at some point, preferrably in person :)
Hi Tatiana,
It's true, the phrase 'white trash' has entered the language - and it's every bit as offensive and digusting as other bits of English colloqial language which target and insult specific racial/class groups.
As for your idea of discussing this in person, I'd absolutely love to! I've read your comments on this blog a fair bit over the last year or so and you sound like a very interesting peron. It would be great to meet up for a chat!
The only snag is that I live in Bangkok. Still, I'm sure it'll be possible one day.
All the best Tatiana,
Marcus
my question remains:where were these kids parents? why were childeren of that age cruising central london at that hour unsupervised?
and i disagree that 50 years ago there were no minorities and the working class was held in respect. my father was born in a tenament in the east end of glasgow, his father was an alcoholic looser and my dad was taken into state custody when he was a small boy. he was raised mainly in foster care. that was the 1930s and "real" scots were convinced their country was being overtaken by "irish immigrants." glasgow's slums (at that time some of the worst in europe) were plagued by sectarian violence- my dad's earliest memories are of catholic-protestant street fights. furthermore he left scotland because he had the feeling that the working class was very much NOT held in respect, he was judged everywhere by his working class manners and accent, and it was impossible in those day for a kid from east glasgow to even imagine going to university (as he eventually did- in leningrad)
the white kids who cruise around today and randomly spit on people or attack girls on buses have no excuse for their behaviour, blaming the presence of immigrants is a total cop out , and not even an accurate one.
incidently marcus, you go on and on about all the immigrants in britain, what about all the british immigrants abroad? there are 5 million british citizens resident abroad, includding 1 million british citizens in spain, and 1.5 in australia? think they should be sent home? so the spanish and australian working classes cant blame them for all their own social ills?
Hi mate,
Let me respond:
1) "my question remains:where were these kids parents? why were childeren of that age cruising central london at that hour unsupervised?"
I quite agree that it is an awful state of affairs. Something is seriously wrong there. But I'm convinced that quoting the racist and prejudiced opinions of your co-workers on your blog is not the very best response.
2) "and i disagree that 50 years ago there were no minorities"
I didn't say there were 'no' minorities, I said there were no minorities 'to speak of' - an important qualifying phrase.
This is a fact:
"There had been no sustained immigration into Britain, other than from Ireland, since the Norman invasion. About 100,000 Huguenots arrived from France in the 17th century. A similar number of Jews arrived in the late nineteenth century and around 70,000 refugees from Nazi Germany were admitted in the 1930s. Sustained immigration dates back only to the 1950s, when migrants from the Caribbean and South Asia began to arrive in Britain." (The economist Bob Rowthorn)
And of course the working class were not always held in respect! But there was until recent times at least some recognition of the nobility of their labour (like all such things , there are counter examples of course) - and that seems to have gone now.
" my father was born in a tenament in the east end of glasgow"
I have no reason to argue with you about your class background, nor do I think that there would be anything to be gained by presenting my own class background in response.
"the white kids who cruise around today and randomly spit on people or attack girls on buses have no excuse for their behaviour, blaming the presence of immigrants is a total cop out , and not even an accurate one."
I quite agree that there is no excuse for such behaviour and I certainly don't wish to provide anyone with one. However it is not me that has brought class and race into this debate - it was your original post that highlighted their colour - just as you do in the above comment.
Do you remember the 'mugger' debate in the 80s when the word 'mugger' became synomomous with black youth? That was racist. Making out that all anti-social kids are white is just as racist.
"incidently marcus, you go on and on about all the immigrants in britain,"
Do I? I am responding to, not generating, this topic here. And if you look at my own blog, you will see that posts on the subject of immigration make up about 2% of my blog - most of my posts are on books, movies, personal anecdotes and spirituality.
"what about all the british immigrants abroad? there are 5 million british citizens resident abroad, includding 1 million british citizens in spain, and 1.5 in australia? think they should be sent home?"
Who said anything about sending anyone home? I certainly didn't. Please don't ascribe opinions to me that I don't hold.
Naneh, I hope I've not annoyed or upset you or anyone else in my post. I don't think that I've said anything bad and certainly nothing along the lines of 'sending people home'!
In fact, one of my major interests is precisely in immigration law and I try as often as I can to give helpful advivce and support to people bringing family members into the UK. I do this both on a personal level and on the Thailand-UK.com forum where my contributions are open for all to see.
Anyway, thank you for giving me the chance to respond here on your blog. It is very kind of you and I believe that one of the signs of a truly worthwhile blog is the level of debate and interaction on the comments facility.
Thank you again,
Marcus
Why do we always need to explain (and excuse) the atrocious behaviour of young people? It's a bit like trying to ponder on why a few lunatics have blown up tubes and busses. At the end of the day they are murderers and have to be dealt with accordingly. It's only in our politically correct society that a would-be prime minister claims that hoodies should be hugged. Had I been in the store I would have smacked the kid left and right - regardless of his background. If nobody stops them they will just go on insulting, spitting and destroying.
i cant believe how much feedback this has elicited! thanks to everyone for their opinions!!!!
You got responses from three people, my dear... Still, claim to fame. It's more than most blogs get. Enjoy the new surrounding.
Yes, but there was A LOT of feedback! LOL!
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